Marc Ecko Knocks REBEL8 Off
January 13th, 2007 by mmmikex
Quoted from the REBEL8 website:
“REBEL8 has been knocked-off before. Mike Giant’s art has been copied, mimicked, and blatantly stolen countless times from both small and large companies. This knock-off from Marc Ecko Cut & Sew really caught my attention.
This was the first time a company of this magnitude in street-wear has taken our signature look and used it as their own.
I post this on our website to not only document this, but to show and call attention to the inability of a company as large as Marc Ecko’s to produce original work.
I am well aware that Marc Ecko probably did not create this one t-shirt. I am also aware he may not even know what REBEL8 is or who and what Mike Giant does. It is very easy to be blind to what is really going on in street wear and the streets when you have $800-million in the bank.
However, there is some pathetic individual in Ecko’s design department copying us, and most likely a bunch of other creative, progressive, and unique companies out there.
To me, it should be the job and role of a company leader, as Marc Ecko, to ensure and demand their company never bites.
-Joshy D.”
REBEL8 style.
Skateboard deck by REBEL8.
REBEL8 shirt available on Digital Gravel.
Notice the girl with tattoos all-over in a black and white style.
Now the design by Marc Ecko Cut & Sew.
Very very similar if you ask me. I think Joshy D. describe it pretty well. I’ll just leave it at that.
(82 votes, average: 1.90 out of 5)
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I dont know about that one. Just because they did it in black & white, and its a girl with tatoos all over her body, that it was copied.
We have two brands that potentially market to the same demographic. One does a WHOLE line that uses women with tattoos in black and white (with skulls, knives, snakes and the like). Another brand (worth millions, btw), makes a shirt with a woman covered with tattoos on her. The tattoos are of (once again) knives, snakes, and skulls.
What else do you need?
I honestly don’t believe that there is any infringement whatsoever with this case. Do a Google search, there are thousands of photos of girls decorated with tattoos (some of these images are in black and white); the Suicide Girls who claim to have over a thousand pin-up girls each flaunting at least one tattoo on their body). The streets are also another good place to spot those who revel in this unending phenomenon; tattoos are adorned almost everywhere in this fashion.
One example of the popularity of individuals with multiple tattoos can definitely be defined, when you find there are products out there that are marketed toward children/teenagers (particularly girls). Henna tattoos for one; and this: javascript:showimg(‘http://images.mytoys.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/de/images/147/32/1473250-2-l.jpg’) which gave me a big laugh. The market researchers see this form of self expression as an opportunity to exploit what was once untainted individualism and turn it into a free for all.
Ultimately, the design of each and every one of the girls portrayed in the above examples (on this page), make up for a portion of the demographic that is being targeted by both Rebel8 and Mark Ecko’s label; both girls and guys with extravagantly designed body ink.
stop being a crybaby.
Yo… are you serious?
I don’t know what these guys are talking about or if they just never heard of Giant but it seems like a blatant bad bite to me and also Marc Echo is a huge toy fag (remeber the faking of the Air Force one bombing?) and that cut n sew shirt is uglier than my girlfriend.
(mmmikex – “Yo… are you serious?”)
Yeah, pretty serious; more particularly so since you have no rebuttal other than to ask whether the views expressed in this post (including my own) are serious or not (No offence).
The other thing I forgot to point out yesterday that affirmed my decision (outside of all of the above cited in my previous post) is that ‘Joshy D’ uses a lot of emotively charged language. For example:
“I post this on our website to not only document this, but to show and call attention to the **inability of a company as large as Marc Ecko’s to produce original work**”,
and:
“**It is very easy to be blind to what is really going on in street wear and the streets when you have $800-million in the bank**”.
Now, I know that Joshy D has a freedom to express concern where he feels it may be valid; except, to raise this in a manner that suggests that Mark Ecko has an ‘inability’ and that he MUST be ‘blind’ to street culture, because “it is very easy to be” when your company is worth $800million; then I am not convinced.
Some question we should ask ourselves is – firstly, how would Joshy D know “that it is easy to be blind…” – because of his own first hand experience? Has Joshy D even bothered to present any evidence to affirm this hypothesis? Why doesn’t he just deal with this situation through the appropriate channels, rather than to attempt defamation on his website? And lastly; what is his objective or why does he feel the need to convince us, the consumer (who have what he wants – MONEY)? It just looks desperate to me.
To conclude, all I ask of those who view this post, is to remind yourself that – like Mark Ecko, Joshy D is also a corporate identity and thus, is positioned to perform in such a way, to elevate his own net worth. It’s all a game of ‘buy this product; don’t bother with the other competition’.
I am aware that there is a lot of biting that goes on in these industries (I am always on the lookout); though unfortunately for Joshy D, in this instance, this is not the case.
That link I posted before f**ked up; this is the real one:
http://images.mytoys.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/de/images/147/32/1473250-2-l.jpg
(If this does not appear as a link then go here):
http://images.mytoys.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/de/images/147/32/1473250-2-l.jpg
mike, yr girls are much classier than ecko’s. i wear a fifty24sf shirt with one of yr ladies on, and wouldnt touch anything by ecko. i say its a bite. not a direct copy, but he’s done it again – lifted someone’s idea instead of thinking of his own. fat fucker.
mmmikex,
Maybe if the same tattoos were used in the same parts of the womans body, then I would consider it a bite, but snakes, knives, and skulls are THE most popular types of tattoos. In this case, its hard to say its a copy…but I still think they are similar ideas.
Yeah, I do agree, though. Not DIRECT, but VERY similar.
Oh and if “yr” means “your”, I’m not Mike Giant. Just a dude named Mike haha.
Just trying to spread the word..
Moose, you had a very good arguement. That’s why I didn’t argue against it. My last post was directed towards bas who just wrote ’stop being a crybaby’. Very immature and does not contribute to anything. Moose, you’ve made me realize a lot and I appreciate it. Hope you don’t take offense to my post about questioning seriousness.
mmmikex,
Oops, my apologies (and no offence taken); sometimes it is hard to figure out who is being responded to with these blogs (what, with time zones) and I assumed that you were citing a case for all of those who posted with an opposing view. It’s good to see that people of like mindedness have a valued concern for the industries underdogs and that we have been blessed with such a forum that allows for us to express these views.
Cheers,
Moose
@mmmikex:
yes i’m being serious.
i’m not contributing to anything?
i don’t think you are contributing anything to this blog.
both designs touch on the same subject, that’s it.
come on: “our signature look”.
since when are tattoo-ed girl that unique..?
EDIT: [Last comment was uncalled for.]
My apologies to bas. Let’s move it along. If you guys disagree, so be it. Let’s continue finding (or trying to find) people wrongfully copied, while keeping discussions (as opposed to arguements) informative.
Your both biting sailor jerry, get over it.
Moose-
Here are some answers for you.
But first, you stated, “I am aware that there is a lot of biting that goes on in these industries (I am always on the lookout); though unfortunately for Joshy D, in this instance, this is not the case.”
The majority of people who know REBEL8 or Mike Giant see through Ecko. There is no way, no how, the designer of that shirt does not know Mike Giant or REBEL8 – or didn’t have our catalog or shirt or website up when they did this. No way. Whether you see it as a bite or not – the person who copied us, definitely knows what they were doing. I wish someone would post the Ecko bite of The Seventh Letter. Supposedly the same designer for Ecko did that one as well.
Your points about how tattoos are so popular and on everyone means nothing to this argument. Suicide Girls, or in better words, tattooed strippers, are some thing else. They are real people with tattoos. So is Ed Hardy clothing – it is tattoo clothing, but just of tattoo imagery by Don Ed Hardy. So are the thousands of tattoo shops and all the TV shows about tattooing – once again people. Or the awesome link you posted about the tattoo kit. That thing rules. All in all, yes tattooing is popular. But, you aren’t getting it. This is about Marc Ecko releasing a graphic that is a copy of our look. Mike Giant was the first to do tattooing on girls for fashion in such a big way. We have been doing it for years and years and it is no coincidence that Ecko seems to come up with the same concept later.
>Some question we should ask ourselves is – firstly, how would Joshy D know “that it is easy to be blind…” – because of his own first hand experience?
No. I would love the chance to be “blind” with $800-million in the bank. But even yourself would have to agree your perception of anything you know now, would be drastically altered if you had $800-million.
>Has Joshy D even bothered to present any evidence to affirm this hypothesis?
Well, when a company copies you – that seems to be evidence enough that they do not have the ability to do some thing unique and original. Or you can say maybe they can, but don’t want to and rather take the easier and lazier approach by copying.
>Why doesn’t he just deal with this situation through the appropriate channels, rather than to attempt defamation on his website?
My attempts aren’t to bad-mouth Ecko, the person. It is directed to the company. As I stated, he has a lot of people below him. It is impossible to run the Ecko empire by yourself and see every graphic that is released. My anger is directed to the person in their design department for the Marc Ecko Cut & Sew department. But, to me, I feel Marc Ecko should make sure his company doesn’t copy others.
What appropriate channels would you recommend for me to take? I am not trying to make a case for court. The Ecko designer didn’t take our exact image that was copyrighted. He took our look.
>And lastly; what is his objective or why does he feel the need to convince us, the consumer (who have what he wants – MONEY)? It just looks desperate to me.
I don’t need to convince anyone. I put this on my website, to show our fans what is up. We already have an amazing group of supporters and fans that keep us in business. Ecko is going to keep on, and so will REBEL8. I am unsure of your money comment. I will openly tell you, we make money by selling products that are unique and original. We do not copy other companies or take their ideas and play them off as our own. Our limited fame, and our limited money, all stems from delivering great products to our customers.
Moose is probably the culprit Ecko employee. Probably fishing around the net to rip off other people’s work.
Chris HM,
It could be as easy as that (or maybe even as obvious; or something obviously stupid enough that someone stupid enough to have his own opinion, that could upset you so directly); though, my conscience is clear.
Joshy D,
Likewise, with you and Mike Giant, there is no doubt in my mind you guys come from a good place and can rest easy at night also.
I do agree with the $800 million statement you had made. Sure, if I had that kind of money, I would (with very real plausibility), have a different view on things. Having said this though, does not expose a contradiction in my opinion. Throughout my whole argument, not once did I ever suggest that millions of dollars could ‘not’ change my perception.
All I wanted to do was raise awareness to the use of emotive language and that, that form of communication can be highly influential. You know, as well as the next person, how such words as ‘blind’ and ‘inability’ (words you had directed at the company and Mark Ecko first, before you even raise suspicion toward ‘the designer/culprit’), can almost certainly leave the Ecko label in a very negative light. It is discourse like this that suggests other things to me and not just what they would appear on face value. Unfortunately for a lot of people, this would be the case.
Take my opinion for example. It was never to question Mike Giant’s or Rebel8’s integrity to produce original artwork. Nor was it to appear that I was in support of Mark Ecko and the t-shirt in question. Though, this is what, I assume has been the way in which my opinions have been viewed.
You ask me for my recommendation on what you should do? I would just leave it as it is for now; the designer has probably (in good faith) lost her/his job by now, due to all the bad publicity Ecko is getting. Though, next time, take it directly to the head honcho and give them your opinion. Whether or not you get the response you want, it won’t matter because your conscience is clear. The likeliness that this would happen from that same brand again is highly unlikely; if it does, you will have room to move legally.
This is not how I feel about every case; but if you honestly feel/see that there is something suspicious about a design released from another company; then do what I have suggested, otherwise it’s just water under the bridge. Leave it up to you loyal clientele to pose the questions on who is ripping what of your company, because from your position, it just looks like you’re trying to create some market leverage; and if that’s what you’re attempting to do, then good for you. If that’s the case, then there will always be people like myself that will view it as such.
Cheers,
Moose
Thanks Moose. Well written. You clearly are a smart, thinking individual. We differ slightly, but your kind words make me feel much better about this post. Very sincerely, Joshy D.
It’s a pin up girl with old school tattoos. Been done many times before, I doubt its a rip.
In case you guys didnt notice, that “type” of art is tattoo art. It doesnt look like “Mike Giant’s” art, it IS traditional tatto style art, dashed with a little mixture in weight of day of the dead lines. Its not a rip!
This is the guy who did it:
E-mails: evan@evanoremland.com or info@evanoremland.com
Website: http://www.evanoremland.com
Myspace: Myspace.com/evanoremland
hmmm… part of that same collection, he also bit FAILE. those guys did a tee with UPPERPLAYGROUND. CUT AND SEW then flipped the graphic a little, changed the female, a little of the layout…but if you know FAILE, you’ll really see the resemblance. i’m too lazy to scan and send you pics and all that, but ya…he did.
it’s like when SEAN JOHN bit 10 DEEP. that LAST OF A DYING BREED thingy… horrible!
i’m trying to think how the ingage in such a process. do they have meetings, and say stuff like: yes! no human alive will ever notice this!are they that high on themselves? money makes a man cat funny… i call it dealines and fillers.
whatever. the lower image is FAR more illustrative, uses color, and brings more elements into the design. HOW many people have used pin up girl drawings? it’s fair game.
That’s life.
It would be outrageous if it was identical, but it is not. What is surprising is that this non-identical comparison is an issue.
This may not be wholly original, but it sure doesn’t look like a rip off. Are you saying, now that you did black-and-white-girl-with-lots-of-tatoos, nobody else should ever use this combination again? This has gone too far. Pretty soon any idea one comes up with, they will need to check that nothing similar has ever been done. And then guess what…all of art withers and dies, other than the purely original, which is maybe what…one-tenth of one percent?
Im going to be a bit mean (and it seems mean to me as I think you guys are very talented and your work is of the highest QUALITY) but I dont find the Rebel 8 stuff to be original enough to claim any kind of major kudos on the style, and most certainly not close enough to this other (inferior) piece to claim anything but a short term localised trendsetting influence.
Can anyone NOT see how your work is inspired directly by a whole thread of work going through Aubrey beardsley, Comic art of several generations and several major counter culture movements of the 70s-00s?
I repeat, its slick as hell, but original isnt a word that occurs, much less genre defining. Skulls and tats? Illustrative monochrome? Really?
Shaun
You can’t OWN a style. This is rediculous.
just leave scko alone its better than ur shit anyway
It’s really easy to have your designs “plaigarized” or your style “copied” when you’re just a huge cliche’ factory to begin with…
Maybe if you strive to actually BE original, other lame-asses will have a harder time copyig your stuff, eh? Just saying…
i saw this on another site and there was an old mike giant print that was identical. thats why its a rip off. it’s an identical rip off of mike giant.
not cause the style is similar
unless the other site was full of shit, but i saw the print.
even the background and the scull up top.
case closed.
Hey man. Seems like I am caught in the same situation.
Someone brought it to my attention that Marc Ecko’s Cut & Sew line bit my style to sell one his shirts.
What was there any action that was taken?
I have a blog about it.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=11269059&blogID=284570336&Mytoken=8EEF34F3-FFD4-40F8-AAD1234125C7A2AD67850230“>
Thanks
-SANTIAGO
SO I SHOULD CREATE A DESIGN OF A RHINO PROFILE… OF COURSE DIFFERENT FROM ECKO’S… AND MAKE T-SHIRTS! WHAT A GRAND IDEA…
No doubt in my mind they ripped off the design, that’s how “trends” are born – Sorry to say that’s what the big coroprate companies do,(I should know I have worked with several corporate companies for graphics for apparel) they are so busy being locked up in cubicles that they look online and everywhere else for “inspiration.” If you have access to it they do, feel me
Marketing people make them do it, they tell them to find what’s cool AND what is selling and to copy it, designer in corporate environments rarely come up with there own original ideas that get taking to production.
Its naive to think people actually design what they want nowadays unless they are an independent, but its not about being respected for you work is about $$$$
It is hardly a ripoff. As said, if the style is cliche to begin with, it is quite hard to claim the style as being copied.
I see where ya’ll are coming from. Yes all your products were out first but there are thousands or designs that are similar. In Georgetown,DC I saw a jacket pretty close to both designs. If its not exactly what your product looks like then you can’t complain about it. *Money*
Marc Eckos clothes are junk, that goes without saying. Now hes biting other peoples stuff.. what an asshole
tienes una lines muy fina espero q tu marca llegue a venezula
Yo
mmmikex
you need to holla at Kat Von Dee i think she stole your idea too.
Seriously i’ve thought of a similar idea before and not from seeing the rebel 8 work, but by observing different ppl in tattoo palours.
You can’t cry because someone has an idea similar to yours, a good creative would know that they can come up with something better its an old idea you had so come up with some new shit.
Even if he did steal your shit feel honoured that a multi national multi million pound company is so impressed by what you did they had to rip it off give yourself a pat on the back, and be on your own dick, just don’t sound like a bitch and moan about it.
Besides you pulled off a better creation than theirs ppl will obviously go for what they believe is the better design if the two were side by side so why fret.
Peace and Blessing
Charles “Da Mighty N” Nastrology
classic b&w tattoo art isn’t exactly a unique concept… neither is a b&w pin-up girl. putting the two together doesn’t take a genius, now does it? i’m not surprised they show up more than once.
I don’t see it. The girls aren’t in the same poses or positions. They don’t have the same hair or accessories. I saw that someone argued that they both have tattoos of ships, knives, skulls, etc… but those are all iconic tattoo images. And even if they weren’t, it’s not like the artist that claims to have been wronged came up with these tattoo design concepts himself.
Im cool of the rebel clothing.
Marc Eckos clothes is much more flamboint.
I actually just got back from buying a couple cut and sew shirts.
both brands are boring,and sell at the worst stores in the states,who cares. neither brand lost money because of simiarities,no loss no gains,just tears.
..its funny when brands and artists claim things as their own…..so now,nobody can ever make a black and white tattoo skank because these nerds did it? PUHHHHLEAAASE…..wake up its time for great success…..your job SHOULD be where the ORIGINAL idea came from..def not either of these cool guys.
I’ve drawn my fair share of b&w badass chicks with tats, and I’ve never seen Rebel8’s designs. So if I decided to sell some shirts with my designs on them, would I also be ripping off Rebel8? Also, take a look at Strangers in Paradise – a comic filled to the brim with hot b&w badass chicks. You going to cry wolf over that too?
Face it, in this case the design that’s being “ripped off” is not revolutionary/original enough to claim plagiarism. Skulls, snakes and tattoos mixed with sexy girls are not the brainchild of Rebel8 – don’t be so petty :/
This is by NO means a bite. Check out the work of Brian Morris
http://www.ooo000ooo.com/
I suppose he copied Mike Giant as well? Or how about some of the designs by Mitch O Connel
http://www.mitchoconnell.com/
not a million miles away from the style of Mike Giant either.
And this is where the problem lies it is a style of drawing that is not unique to one person it goes way back through the traditions of tattooing. It just so happens that old school tattoo designs are super fashionable at the moment so surely it makes sense for a fashion brand to use this imagery?
I love the work of Mike Giant and think that he produces some beautiful images, however for someone to claim that he has the sole right to draw in this way is completely wrong and undermines the work of those who came before him.
That “tattoed girl” design has been done way before Rebel 8. He did not come up with that idea.
Majority of y’all are just jeleaous of Marc Ecko, if you ask me. He does cutting edge designs for clothing and everybody is mad b/c alot of people love the Ecko clothing line. Besides it looks just as good as some of these other designer clothing lines, like Ed Hardy, and it costs half as much!!! It is still kind of expensive, but not as much a rip off as Ed Hardy!!!!!
Who cares if it’s a copy, just as long as it looks good. That’s what the fashion industry is all about: Making money!!!! Face the facts. I wear what looks good, regardless of whether or not it’s a stolen design or not. The customer is number one here!!!!! LMAO.
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First off, I’m a huge fan of Rebel8 and probably will be forever. Joshy and Mike have put together a quality line and continue to impress with each season’s release.
That said, I’m not sure they can argue that they were ripped off. It’s a tough call. Giant certainly has his own style and boat loads of talent but his artwork is undoubtedly influenced by greats from the past. You can see the history of tattoo art, poster art, and graffiti art play out in all of his work and it’s amazing how his style has evolved and has become increasingly refined to meld all of these movements together. His pop art predecessors like Coop and Kozik have been using skulls and pinups and tattoo influenced design forever but they too used these themes to develop independent styles.
If artists didn’t borrow from each other then culture would never evolve. This is true with every facet of artistic expression. It drives creation and pushes people to take risks. Where it starts to get dicey is when a graphic designer (not an artist) simply copies an idea instead of using it as an influence to try something new. Why would a designer do such a petty thing? $$$$. Ecko is clearly in the business of making money and thus has lost sight of what is truly art.
Mike and Joshy, on the other hand, have a clear vision of what style they are developing as true art and are pushing the limits and boundaries of that style without having to sell out in the process.
Truthfully, I find Ecko’s and Audigier’s designs waaaaay to busy and sparkly and I don’t think anyone who appreciates having a unique style would wear their clothing. Not to mention that the people buying that designer stuff are likely not as interested in the artwork on the shirt as much as the label on the tag.
Joshy, please don’t fret too much about these petty imitations. Those of us who actually appreciate the artwork you are offering and the lifestyle that influences it could care less about these corporate labels and will always spread the gospel of Rebel8. I can see the frustration of having your hard work copied but what you are building is proven to be far bigger than a fashion trend. The imitations will surely end up in Marshalls and TJ Maxx in no time while your LE pieces will be fought over on Ebay for big bucks. Seriously, when is the last time you saw somebody tattoo Ecko’s logo on their forearm.
This is about respect and Joshy & Giant certainly have mine. Stay true to the art and remain exclusive and independent. Respect is better than the big $$$$$ in the long run.
And Ecko, come on. There has to be at least one real artist with a unique style on your staff. If not, there must be some leftover cash to hire one. I’d suggest scouting some art schools.
Regards,
Rebel8 Patron
Two Thoughts. The Rebel8 design has a classic look. CLEAN-SIMPLE-AFFECTIVE. There is a nice use of positive and negative shape (exposed tee) within the design. There are no elements that compete with the integrity of the character of the figure and her self assured stature. Also, this design could fit comfortably a decade or two back or have enough class and appeal that it does not totally date itself. It has the potential to find a comfy spot in one’s tee collection and not the dust rag bin. The other design in question, has those 2008-10 suburbia/mall dated superficial flurish marks. That “style” is already out of style. The echo design has a mtv look at me “TOOL ACADEMY” vibe. Every dweeb designer that cuts and pastes the flourish marks lacks vision and has one goal in mind (appeal to the copycat masses).
-peace
“Signature Style”?? lol. That Rebel8 shit looks like it was straight JACKED from Los Hermanos Hernandez. Just another gabacho biting Chicano art, and then crying foul when other gabachos do the same thing.
Those illustrations were done on tees way before Rebel8. They are trying to capitalize on it saying it’s their original idea when it’s not. Go through Sailor Jerrys work and you will see where Rebel8 got alot of their ideas from. Everybody uses somebody for inspiration. It’s just the babies who cry about it that mess it up. I haven’t heard any of Sailor Jerrys people bitch when Rebel8 “ripped off” their ideas.